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Poster: ringolevio Date: Dec 23, 2010 11:09am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Senator calls university's digital Grateful Dead archive wasteful

I guess I just see it as self-evident. It's the same reason the government subsidizes education, scholarly and medical research, the arts, libraries, museums, and cultural institutions. (Human betterment.) You surely don't need me to list the reasons for all this? I realize there are people who think there's no legitimate rationale for a government doing anything other than maintaining a military; clearly I think the government has quite a few other responsibilities.

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Poster: robthewordsmith Date: Dec 23, 2010 11:25am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Senator calls university's digital Grateful Dead archive wasteful

It might be a pretty obvious thing to say, but isn't a "government of the people, by the people, for the people" pretty much obligated to carry out its duties in a way that best serves the physical and mental well being of said people?

Just saying, I think you're on the side of the angels on this one, D.

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Poster: deadhead53 Date: Dec 23, 2010 11:49am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Senator calls university's digital Grateful Dead archive wasteful

I think my last post was out of frustration over many issues, I do not think this should be funded by the government, Gov should help fund education, roads, military and many other important services. I just think we fund way to many things that we don't need to. As this government both dems and repubs put us deeper and deeper into debt when does it end. Read up on Rome and how they collapsed, very similar!

Merry Christmas and Happy New Year to All and to all a good night!

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Poster: ringolevio Date: Dec 23, 2010 11:47am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Senator calls university's digital Grateful Dead archive wasteful

I was just thinking we needed a European perspective here; this "government get outta my life" thing is peculiarly American, no? In my experience, Europeans are usually shaking their heads in confusion when Americans have these ridiculous conversations.

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Poster: robthewordsmith Date: Dec 23, 2010 11:55am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Senator calls university's digital Grateful Dead archive wasteful

i wish I could say that "government get outta my life" was purely part of your political life, but, by and large, it's a major policy strand of our current government's thinking as they seek to devolve responsibility from central government to local interest groups. (The 'Big Society' they laughingly call it.) Really makes you wonder why anybody would want to vote for a party that seeks to distance themselves from the blame for pretty much everything.

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Poster: dead-head_Monte Date: Dec 23, 2010 1:13pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Senator calls university's digital Grateful Dead archive wasteful

In America today, it's Glenn Beck's way, or the highway. My era is over. I'm a relic. Social and environmental justice are taboo in the 21st century. It's a new America here. I'm thinking same as you are.

You're an art-terrorist. We're related since I'm a former soundman-terrorist and music-loving communist. I'm an anarchist Net Neutrality-terrorist, a progressive-peace-terrorist, a taper-terrorist, hippie-terrorist, and I'm a Greenpeace-loving-eco-terrorist same as Jerry. I was born in 1951 when Joseph McCarthy wasn't looking.

The Internet Archive is a bunch of digital librarian-terrorists. They are hosting my vintage Americana tape recordings. They're hosting a WikiLeaks collection. They're hosting my peace and reconciliation essay. The Archive-terrorists are in a conspiracy with everyone here on these Forums since they are hosting The Grateful Dead tape collection. We're terrorists now because we're associating with them.

Obama Meets Privately With the Dead - March 30, 2009.

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Poster: ringolevio Date: Dec 23, 2010 8:21pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Senator calls university's digital Grateful Dead archive wasteful

I don't know about terrorist, but I'm definitely something of a relic. Not trying to get people riled up, honestly, but I've slowly gleaned over the months here that lots of deadheads aren't radicals or peaceniks or lefty liberals like I thought we all were.

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Poster: skuzzlebutt Date: Dec 23, 2010 5:41pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Senator calls university's digital Grateful Dead archive wasteful

You keep trying to expand this into something more than what it is. To me, the only thing "self evident" is that it is ridiculous to spend taxpayer money on a digital archive for the Grateful Dead, or any other rock band. Hell, maybe MORE so than any other rock band. Few performers in history have been as exhaustively chronicled as the GD, and almost all of the legwork has been done by the fans themselves. We're not talking about the library of congress capturing ghostly delta blues here. The idea that the Dead's legacy is in need of further chronicling paid for by the government less it be lost is preposterous. It's already been preserved. Again: wasteful.

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Poster: ringolevio Date: Dec 23, 2010 8:15pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Senator calls university's digital Grateful Dead archive wasteful

>To me, the only thing "self evident" is that it is ridiculous to spend taxpayer money on a digital archive for the Grateful Dead, or any other rock band.

It isn't "for the Grateful Dead." This is like saying, the government shouldn't fund libraries because the authors of the books make money selling their books. The tax money that supports libraries doesn't go to the authors of the books, it goes to the patrons, i.e., it is for the public.

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Poster: skuzzlebutt Date: Dec 23, 2010 8:31pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Senator calls university's digital Grateful Dead archive wasteful

Holy fuck. The whole point of the thread is that Coburn tagged a GD archive project as wasteful (I maintain that he is correct; you want to soapbox about war and public libraries). The project isn't archiving Laurie Anderson or Rush Limbaugh or Roky Erikson or Ron Jeremy, so cut the semantic bullshit about "for". You seem like a reasonably bright guy. It shouldn't be this hard for you, unless you've just determined you can't hold the line for your position.

To recap:

"The UCSC Grateful Dead Archive, announced in 2008, is an extensive collection of thousands of pictures, documents and pieces of memorabilia. The archive also contains band member journals, paraphernalia related to the band's extensive social network of devoted fans and the group's highly unusual and successful business ventures."

Really, clouding your retreat behind a cloud of rhetoric about larger issues seems like a rather weak tactic. I implore you to offer an argument in defense of THIS PROJECT receiving taxpayer money, which is essentially duplicating work that has already been done in the private sector, or concede that it is a textbook example of waste.

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Poster: ringolevio Date: Dec 24, 2010 4:37am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Senator calls university's digital Grateful Dead archive wasteful

I'm a gal not a guy, but no matter. Maybe we should call this off for now, owing to the holiday spirit? :) I do think those larger issues are all relevant, and I guess I thought defending the value of *this* project (as opposed to Rush Limbaugh etc.) was not necessary on a Grateful Dead forum! Maybe you don't understand the full scope of what they're doing? They're not archiving the music - it doesn't duplicate what is already here on this web site. it's an archive of documents and cultural artifacts, to preserve them for future generations, and for scholarship. It's just like a museum, only digital. Many museums will begin this process (digitizing whatever they've got that can be digitized). Art museums, historical societies etc. will all do this, slowly but surely - as funds are available, whether through private donations or government grants. *What* the materials are isn't really the point though I assumed the value of Grateful Dead materials in the larger culture was taken for granted here (the value of preserving and documenting this culture for future generations). The government has always done this in a big way. We can certainly disagree, but it's not a new argument to suggest this is a good thing for governments to be involved in.

Please no hard feelings, I just like arguing, but I can call it off for the holidays. Have a happy one :)

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Poster: skuzzlebutt Date: Dec 24, 2010 6:16am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Senator calls university's digital Grateful Dead archive wasteful

Just for the record, I fully understand what the project entails. What I am waiting for is for someone to articulate WHY making a digital catalog of all this stuff is SO critical as to warrant public funding (at any time, really, but especially now). There must be, literally, millions of data points on the Grateful Dead already accessible to the general public in libraries (which you've mentioned) and on the internet: photographs, artwork, interviews, concerts, document scans, film footage...Do we really need to subsidize a fresh effort to collect this stuff?

That said, I do apologize if I got a tad prickly during this thread(and about the gender assumption). There was really no need, and it was certainly nothing personal. Funny thing is, I accused you of soapboxing, when in reality I have a bit of a problem staying off of my own. All the best, anI hope you enjoy the Holiday Season to the fullest!

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Poster: ringolevio Date: Dec 27, 2010 8:06pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Senator calls university's digital Grateful Dead archive wasteful

Peace :) maybe we can resume after the holidays ... happy new year!

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Poster: NorthStarDead Date: Dec 29, 2010 5:04am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Senator calls university's digital Grateful Dead archive wasteful

I am late for supper on this thread but regardless
of your views on politics, who cares?
What a senator or any one says or thinks.
Don't let it ruin your day.

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